Оценки - Лидин

[Зогар Саг]

Цитата: Автор: ArK "Про Конана" христианства нет, как и других современных религий.

"Про Конана" можно понять об отношении к религии как к таковой.

[ArK]

Цитата: Автор: Зогар Саг "Про Конана" можно понять об отношении к религии как к таковой.

1. Отношение кого? Конан к Крому, Сету и, скажем, Митре, по разному относится.

2. Но и этот тут не причём. Правоту или не правоту Лидина о Конане и девушках надо показывать на тексте, в первую очередь Говарда.

[Зогар Саг]

Цитата: Автор: ArK 1. Отношение кого? Конан к Крому, Сету и, скажем, Митре, по разному относится.

Отношение Конана к религии исчерпывающе показано в "Королеве черного побережья".

Цитата: Правоту или не правоту Лидина о Конане и девушках надо показывать на тексте, в первую очередь Говарда.

Сам Лидин на Говарда не ссылается. Он ссылается почему-то на 60-е гг, когда Говард был уже давно мертв.

А вообще- на здоровье. По поводу "многих женщин":

"Алая Цитадель":

Цитата: "I must ride to Shamar, and the siege. In ten days I will be in your palace in Tamar, with my warriors. What word from you shall I say to your women, before I flay their dainty skins for scrolls whereon to chronicle the triumphs of Tsotha-lanti?"

Цитата: Conan thought of Tsotha's last abominable threat, and groaned in sick fury, knowing it was no idle boast. Men and women were to the wizard no more than the writhing insect is to the scientist. Soft white hands that had caressed him, red lips that had been pressed to his, dainty white bosoms that had quivered to his hot fierce kisses, to be stripped of their delicate skin, white as ivory and pink as young petals—from Conan's lips burst a yell so frightful and inhuman in its mad fury that a listener would have stared in horror to know that it came from a human throat.

Цитата: Complaints of extortion, murder and rape poured in to Arpello, who had taken up his quarters in Publius' palace, because the desperate councillors, doomed by his order, were holding the royal palace against his soldiers. He had taken possession of the pleasure-palace, however, and Conan's girls were dragged to his quarters. The people muttered at the sight of the royal beauties writhing in the brutal hands of the iron-clad retainers * dark-eyed damsels of Poitain, slim black-haired wenches from Zamora, Zingara and Hyrkania, Bryth***** girls with tousled yellow heads, all weeping with fright and shame, unused to brutality.

"Все негодяи в доме":

Цитата: “I have slain a man tonight, not a beast. I will count him among the chiefs whose souls I've sent into the dark, and my women will sing of him.”

Отношение Конана к религии:

Цитата: Conan, do you fear the gods?" "I would not tread on their shadow," answered the barbarian conservatively. "Some gods are strong to harm, others, to aid; at least so say their priests. Mitra of the Hyborians must be a strong god, because his people have builded their cities over the world. But even the Hyborians fear Set. And Bel, god of thieves, is a good god. When I was a thief in Zamora I learned of him." "What of your own gods? I have never heard you call on them." "Their chief is Crom. He dwells on a great mountain. What use to call on him? Little he cares if men live or die. Better to be silent than to call his attention to you; he will send you dooms, not fortune! He is grim and loveless, but at birth he breathes power to strive and slay into a man's soul. What else shall men ask of the gods?" "But what of the worlds beyond the river of death?" she persisted. "There is no hope here or hereafter in the cult of my people," answered Conan. "In this world men struggle and suffer vainly, finding pleasure only in the bright madness of battle; dying, their souls enter a gray misty realm of clouds and icy winds, to wander cheerlessly throughout eternity." Belît shuddered. "Life, bad as it is, is better than such a destiny. What do you believe, Conan?" He shrugged his shoulders. "I have known many gods. He who denies them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond death. It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or Crom's realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls of the Nordheimer's Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content."

Отношение Говарда к религии:

Цитата: I noted with interest your comments regarding the supernatural, etc., and am not equipped to dispute any point of your theories. I never gave a name to my views – or lack of views – but I guess an Agnostic is what I am, if that means skepticism regarding all human gropings.

https://skullsinthestars.com/2008/03...gious-beliefs/

Ну и еще можно тут почитать:
https://graduateway.com/the-satanic-...howard-part-2/
https://graduateway.com/the-satanic-...howard-part-3/

Наконец, отношение христианского священнослужителя к Говарду и Конану:

Цитата: On the same subject, Rev. Austin Spencer noted [4] that: "The Crucifixion of Jesus has left a deep mark on all members of Western culture, regardless of whether or not one be a Christian believer. Robert E. Howard is certainly no exception. (...) When I was preparing the present volume, a colleague drew my attention to A Witch Shall be Born. I was both impressed and appalled by Howard's achievement - creating a full-fledged Pagan counterpart and total antithesis to the New Testament account.(...) The crucified Conan does not feel forsaken by his god, Crom. This god, Crom, offers neither physical deliverance not spiritual solace - he merely endows Cimmerians with enormous strength and tenacity to fight. Conan, killing a vulture with his teeth while pinioned to the cross, is a true votary of his savage god. There are no thieves crucified at Conan's side - the thieves remove him from the cross in exchange for his joining their thievery. (...) Conan does not forgive his enemies, and certainly does not ask Crom to do so; he takes direct and ruthless revenge. For Conan, the rule is simple and straightforward - "Crucify Or Be Crucified". (...) One need not take literally the grim tribal god on his mountain to recognize in today's America the votaries and prophets of Crom, who would take spiritual guidance from the Crucifixion of Conan rather than the Crucifixion of Jesus".

Добавлено через 1 минуту

Цитата: Автор: Ґрун Цитирую по Return to the Roads of Kings (страницы 67–68).

А можно что-нибудь по Говарду процитировать?

[Ґрун]

Цитата: Автор: Зогар Саг А можно что-нибудь по Говарду процитировать?

Увы, не могу. Но я вот как раз собрался Говарда читать-перечитывать. Буду обращать на этот конкретный момент внимание, если будет встречаться. О прочитанном отчитаюсь.

[Lex Z]

Цитата: Автор: Зогар Саг Лекс, ты когда появишься, можешь спросить у Лидина- читал ли он этот рассказ, насколько собственный гарем коррелирует с "моральными ценностями христианской Америки" и в курсе ли он, что Говард вообще христианство не особенно котировал, что и отразилось в его рассказах?

Лидин каждый день на Фантлабе, каждый сам может задать ему любой вопрос.

[Зогар Саг]

Я пароль пролюбил.
Да ладно, все равно ничего не изменишь.

[Vlad lev]

Цитата: Автор: Ґрун Цитирую по Return to the Roads of Kings (страницы 67–68):

причём здесь камповские искажалки Говарда?

Конкурс по Говарду, а не по этому типу.

Добавлено через 4 минуты

Цитата: Автор: ArK В Часе Дракона?

у Кампа в русиянском переводе упоминается, что после женитьбе на Зенобии Конан "тактично распустил гарем"

[Зогар Саг]

Цитата: Автор: Vlad lev у Кампа в русиянском переводе упоминается, что после женитьбе на Зенобии Конан "тактично распустил гарем"

Это, по-моему, у Ниберга в "Мстителе"

[Vlad lev]

Цитата: Автор: Зогар Саг Это, по-моему, у Ниберга в "Мстителе"

Не буду спорить. А сверяться неохота. Только проло и эпилог там - Кампов

[Monk]

Хаецкая - 9.9.9.9, Лидин - 1.1.1.1... Какие абсолютно разные судьи)).
Но тем интереснее. Вообще, вижу: Лидин зря баллами не разбрасывается)).